Episode Transcript
[00:00:09] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome back to music industry 360. I am your host and fearless leader through all of the subject matter we're going to cover today. My name is Randall Foster. I am chief creative officer at Symphonic.
With us today are two great, great, great executives hailing in the city of, well, the various boroughs of New York. We have Paulina Voe and we have Drew de Leon.
Polina is first generation vietnamese American and lives in Brooklyn, New York, where she is a co founder and partner, really in this great organization we're going to discuss today called the Digilogue. Drew de Leon is also in New York. He's in Queens and is also the co founder of the Digilog. He also oversees all of the original programming and leads the marketing arm, which is called Digilabs. Very witty.
Which is a consulting and marketing arm that works and assists labels and artists with marketing themselves. Welcome to the podcast, you guys.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Thank you. Thanks for that intro, Randall. Very, very professional.
[00:01:21] Speaker C: Thanks, Randall, and great to see you again.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: Good to see you as well. Drew and I met at south by Southwest. We had a lovely couple of seconds where we got to speak, which is the case of most interactions at south by Southwest, I find.
But it's so good to see you guys here and to have you here as part of our podcast because we're very excited about the things you guys have going on with the digilog. But I do want to start. I love to get origin stories and find out a little bit about what motivates us and what brought us to where we're at. So can you guys just tell us a little bit about yourself, whoever wants to go first? How did you get into music? Like, was music and working in this industry always a motivator for you? Or is this something that, you know, as I like to say, every now and again, you stepped in and got stuck to the bottom of your shoe?
[00:02:12] Speaker B: That's hilarious. I'll definitely start, but that's the best thing I've heard about this industry.
Yeah, no, I started by writing music, like, as a kid playing guitar. And in high school, you know, I did the driving myself out to some random venue in downtown of my city, playing to the ten people that came to my show. So did that. Recorded, you know, self recorded EPs in college, did the same thing. I literally used to sling, like, my burn CDs out to all of my classmates.
Handwritten, right, with the permanent marker, the track list. So did that for a while. And of course, in college, continued working down that circuit, kind of making a name for myself and my local scene and then eventually moved out to New York to pursue music, ended up working in tech, and kind of the long and short of it is I realized I actually love the operational and interesting aspects of the music behind the scenes in the industry itself, and so ended up kind of slowly working my way through networking events, ended up going to digilogue events, meeting Drew, and then worked on some projects together and eventually joined the team. And then, of course, co founded my own audio tech startup later as well. So I kind of been spending time in the industry and spent some time in music publishing, but it all stems from this, like, eight year old me writing a really bad Spice Girls fake song with the limited English. I know.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: That's awesome. All roads lead back to the Spice Girls.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: Of course.
[00:03:55] Speaker A: Drew, tell us about you.
[00:03:57] Speaker C: Love that. Yeah.
Now, similar to Paulina, I'm first gen Filipino American. So expectations for immigrant parents are like, study hard, get a job, and pay us back. So I think for me, going into school in college, I enjoyed marketing, but I always had a creative kind of just curiosity for things. And I think music was always that, but I didn't necessarily know how to kind of cross that bridge. So right out of college, you know, I worked in finance for three years, but I was always surrounded by artists, DJ's, creatives and so forth. And then in 2010, when the recession happened and I decided to take a leap when this is, you know, when everything's happening, I was like, you know, I want to pursue a creative medium where I want to help people. And music became that medium. And my first entry point to music was managing my friend who was a DJ. So I became a music manager. There's no handbook for it. You got to learn everything on the fly. And eventually I started my own management company called Blank Label. I started working with other artists and really just found an opportunity where while I'm doing that, you know, trying to figure out, like, how to pay the bills. So, you know, I was working side hustle gigs. I was able to get a job at Pete's by Dre just to kind of pay the bills. But, you know, music was obviously what I was passionate about. I just didn't necessarily know how to, like, build the career. But fast forward.
I found my niche within digital marketing because at the time, in 2010, you know, I think we were all figuring out what social media was, and there was a lot of opportunity to really help artists navigate the social media landscape, and that became my offering to help artists. So in 2017, I started working for labels and consulting for them. But in doing that, I also wanted to help young professionals and artists. So earlier that year, in 2016, I started Digilab, because when I first started music, there was no entry point. It was just like, figuring things out on the fly. And I think putting people together, whether your experience or not, or just passionate about music, was really the purpose. And our first event only had 16 people. But our first digilogue event was really magical because everyone just geeked out, felt really seen and comfortable. And Digilog, which stands for digital dialogue, was really just the intersection of the conversation between music and tech. And that compounded over time as we decided to do events every month. And eventually, fast forward now where I get to work side by side with Polina eight years later. It's been incredible to see the community grow, you know, over 77,000 in audience, and just being able to program across the US and now London most recently, and be in this position to help not only just artists, but professionals with their careers.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: Very cool. It's so interesting to hear you bring up the immigrant parents thing. My best friend is Laos, and whole family is from Laos, and I can just imagine what his. What his father would say to him if he said, I'm going to do music now.
I imagine that was an interesting conversation around the kitchen table.
[00:07:14] Speaker C: Yeah. They're like, well, you want to leave your high paying finance job?
Well, I was like, yeah, it's soulless. I have no motivation for it.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: I'm passionate about spreadsheets, mom.
[00:07:29] Speaker C: I learned a lot just because we work in the music business, right, we need to understand budgets, finances, and the bottom line. But ultimately, for me, it was just, you know, it was a turning point. It's either I do this or do something that I'm passionate about, and I'm glad that, you know, I was able to choose that. I know the first five years, and I know for a lot of people is always challenging, and I always tell people, like, everyone has various journeys. It's never linear. And for me, like, my breakthrough point came when I was 33, so when I pivoted, I was 25. So think about eight years of just, like, trying to hustle and get to this point. And Plana can speak to it with her journey, too. You know, it's never an overnight thing.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: Yeah, very similar.
[00:08:13] Speaker A: Until you're proven that your. Your gut instinct was right, which is pretty, pretty. Gotta be a pretty amazing feeling.
I mean, the scope of what you all have built in the community that you've built. What did you say? 77,000 people?
[00:08:30] Speaker C: That's incredible.
[00:08:31] Speaker A: I mean, that's. That's a. That's a. That's a city.
It's not a networking group.
And I know. I know the Digilog is. Is a lot of things to a lot of people, right? It's events, and it's. It's the marketing piece that you talked about. And, of course, separate, but also, I'm certain, tied up in the Digilog is, you know, the high note technology, the collaboration platform.
It seems to me like Digilog is built on collaboration. Generally give us the elevator pitch on Digilog to somebody who's never been to an event, never logged into the website, never been around it.
What are the salient talking points about it, its purpose, and the various tendrils it has into not only the New York scene, but the greater global music scene?
[00:09:32] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. And feel free to add to this.
You know, I look at the Digilogue as a global music and tech ecosystem. Right? We focus on, you know, four verticals, with community being the centerpiece of it. When I think community, I think about in person events. I think about, you know, me and you meeting for the first time and building a relationship, and that's what it's really about. But in addition to that, it's about creating these other verticals that really super serve our community members. So within that, we have music careers. Essentially, we are a job board for professionals. So whether you be an intern, mid level manager, or a senior exec, there's opportunities for you to look for opportunities and jobs. And I felt like. Like a lot of our community found that challenging when looking for jobs, because there was never a hub for that. I mean, there's few platforms, but I would say more community driven for them. We also, within the music careers vertical, also have a recruiting agency. We help our company partners find great candidates from our community. I think that's super important because a standard recruiter may not understand what a royalty coordinator does. Right. So we can speak to those nuances.
The other vertical is artist discovery. And I think this is really at the heart of what we do in terms of supporting artists, whether it be our showcases, our playlists, and really supporting our distribution partners to highlight their artist partners on the platform. I always like to say we like to super serve the 99%, and I feel like this is the space where independent artists are thriving the most. So there's that and then education. I mean, Polina could speak to this. You know, the landscape is constantly changing. What we were doing in 2023 is very, very different from 2024. And we want to be able to just educate our community with either new tools, new technologies, and, you know, with topics like AI. What does that mean from an artist standpoint? What does that mean from a professional standpoint and just where the industry is going into the next year?
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And like, to summarize it really quick, too, I would just add that we're a diverse, like, global community that provides these particular programming lanes that drew mentioned. And I'll add that, like, we are so proud because our community is incredibly inclusive and super diverse. I think we ran a survey about a year and a half ago now, and, you know, it's, what was it, like, 60% BIPOC, if not more? And then the woman split. It's like 60% female and 40% male in terms of the major genders. And it's been really cool to just watch that community continue to serve itself and to level up as folks in our community are leveling up and learning more.
[00:12:35] Speaker A: Yeah. The rest of the industry can learn a lot by looking at those statistics you just said.
Paulina, talk a little bit more about your role within the organization, the verticals that you lean in on heaviest, and the things that you're most proud of that you all are doing currently.
[00:12:52] Speaker B: Yeah, you actually, when you said earlier, how do we talk to our family about working in the music industry at the dinner table? The thing is, like, I get the advantage of being on the nerdy side of the music industry, so I primarily focus on our operations and over to see our finance. By the way, we have a great finance director, so he's fantastic. Jose. But in general, I'm the general manager, so I oversee everything, kind of try to remove blockers, lead strategy conversations, and one of the big key events we do every year, which is our yearly conference, help co produce that as well, and just make sure all the pieces are coming together. So really have a hand in generally everything. I can never tell you where, you know, something happening on a specific date or what the venue is, but I know from, like, a broader view, like, what exactly is happening at this month, who to get in contact with and how to make sure that our community members are getting, you know, what they need. So, yeah, I do the nerdy stuff. That's usually what I say, and just kind of keep the ship going.
[00:13:58] Speaker A: It sounds like you keep the train on the rails. What it sounds like?
[00:14:01] Speaker B: Yeah, any metaphor. Just throw them out there. I'll take them all.
[00:14:07] Speaker A: What were you saying, Drew?
[00:14:09] Speaker C: I was a plina is the glue. She. She keeps everyone in check and she's, you know, fearless leader, and, you know, yeah, we wouldn't be in this position. I just feel like, yeah, she contributes so much.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: So as an organization. Sorry, go ahead.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: I was gonna say Drew's, like, the ideas and the, like, the heart, and, like, he will just. My favorite thing that he does is sometimes he'll just text an idea, and we're just like, that sounds great, Drew. Just let. Let us know when you need it. You know, do it. And then the rest of us on the opposite side, especially, we kind of just make it happen with Drew.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: That's why Drew and I vibe so well together, because we're both creative guys.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: I'm always like, 100%.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: I'm like, hey, we should do this. And they're like, really? How much is that going to cost? I'm like, no, no. We should do it, though, right? It'd be good. Yes.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: My question. When? How much?
[00:15:02] Speaker A: Yep, absolutely.
Oh, my goodness. So this community is 77,000 people, obviously. I know New York City is a massive city. I assume they're not all geo located around New York. Do you have chapters in other cities? What's the makeup of the physical locations for the things you're doing?
[00:15:25] Speaker C: Yeah. So New York is actually our biggest market, followed by Los Angeles and then Nashville. But we have actually 25 representatives, or what we call them community curators or community reps in various cities, majority within the US, you know, from, obviously, New York, LA, Atlanta, Nashville, DC, Chicago. And I can go on, but we have a few cities internationally, Toronto, London, and also the country and continent of Australia. So we have one person representing Melbourne.
And it's been really cool just because when we think about programming, we really have to think about the local community as opposed to just everything from a big picture standpoint. And we really lean on our community reps. And Polina can speak to this on just how we communicate, how we program, what's important to them. It's just very different in each city, but obviously, a lot of their challenges are similar. So that's one of the reasons we launched it during the pandemic. It was a good opportunity because we met a lot of our reps on a platform called Clubhouse, which was active at the time.
[00:16:42] Speaker A: I haven't heard that word said in a while.
[00:16:47] Speaker C: But it brought us all together, and then. Yeah, I mean, Polina, you could speak to it.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, we lean into the idea, actually, when we were at south by, we talked to one of the founders of one of the events, and she was like, no matter the size of the event, it's kind of the same problems when you're serving kind of the same folks. And I think about that in a good way, meaning we can have these community curators operate locally and work with whatever their region or their locality needs, but we can anticipate those problems. Speaking as, of course, an ops person, we can anticipate those problems and provide the resources that local person needs. And then however big that gets. Right. And that's kind of the, like, secret sauce which we are sharing publicly. No, the secret sauce to how we make sure that we can cover the major regions, the major areas, but also, like, the more local music scenes as well, and giving people the opportunity to bounce between the two of the community curators. Like, hey, I have this artist here. They're coming to New York. You know, we love to connect them to the curator here or to our team here. You know, maybe they play an event here, they get to play in a bigger city, right? So it kind of creates this, like, network between all of us, which is pretty fantastic. We've seen some artists. I mean, we forgot to mention Miami Dreher, head of artist discovery, one of his artists, Cedric, right, he's played in New York, but he started Miami. You know, the two of them kind of started together. So it's great to see artists and stories like that come from literally, hey, connected with you on Clubhouse or wherever online. And here we are connecting in person, and then we're in south by. Right. It's just kind of a cool, cool experience.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: I love that sentiment, though, that like, with any event, the bigger bigger large, the smaller large, that the struggle is the same. It's just at scale for the bigger.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:18:48] Speaker A: And I think that's actually really true. I would think.
Tell me this, like, for our listeners, if they were wanting to get involved, is this a thing they have to pay money to be a part of? Do they log into a website and join an online community?
What's membership look like?
[00:19:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I can speak to it. So membership is free.
So most of our events are free. I think the only really paid event that we have is really digital out days, which is our big conference. And the way I look at that is more of an investment as opposed to just like, hey, I'm paying for this, and this is the only thing I'm going to get out of it. But we do have a patreon for our, like, I like to say more of our premium members. I think there's a certain point where, like, whether an artist or a professional is like, hey, I want to, you know, do a resume review with our head of recruiting or, you know, we want to do music feedback with our artist discovery team and super affordable and it's monthly or yearly subscription, but we don't necessarily push that as something that members have to be investing in as to be part of the digilog. It's more like, how do I elevate my level of learning? And this is another way to do that.
But it's free. And obviously with the Digilog, we're very active on social. So anytime anyone reaches out, depending on what city they're in, we try to connect them with our community curators immediately. If they're like, hey, you know, I'm from, you know, London. Do you have any representation here? And I think that's the best thing about having this program that we have local people representing us.
[00:20:31] Speaker A: Awesome. Drew, talk a little bit about Digileps for us. Apologies, I've got, I've got the allergies coming on here as it's, as it is. Seasonal allergy time here in Nashville. Yeah, same, but with digital labs. I know you said that's kind of your baby. Can you talk a little bit about the service offering from digital labs and how that intersects not only with the community but also outside of the community?
[00:20:56] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. I think what we realized over the past couple of years is that a lot of our artist partners and even our company partners, they're always trying to navigate the digital landscape. And digital marketing has become obviously an essential piece for artists to communicate their artist proposition, their messaging, building community and fan base and so forth. So I've taken kind of my expertise along with the team. So just for context, I used to head digital marketing at Def Jam and Alamo Records. So we use that expertise and experience to, like, really help our artists partners from the community and taking that experience and not just kind of leaving it just for obviously the established artists, but taking that knowledge and saying like, hey, we can help you artist, a who's just an independent artist, trying to build a footprint, trying to navigate the digital landscape, trying to discover their artist proposition, trying to build their fan base with just, like, the tools to one, you know, identify their brand, but start to, like, really message their content. So I just wanted to take all that experience that I got over the years and say, like, hey, we could also service our independent artist partners as well. And we're doing that now. In addition to working with labels, we work with distribution partners and indie labels and so forth.
We're obviously selective as well. Just because I think we're intentional. We're not like, hey, let's work 100 artists. We really want to make sure if there's an artist partner that makes sense. You know, we really believe in not only the artists, but the music, the team, and so forth. So it's not necessarily public. You know, we kind of, like, reach out individually to, like, each of our partners. So this is probably the first time we're really sharing it, which is a debut, which is great.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: And I'm very excited about it, too.
[00:23:00] Speaker C: Because, you know, we've been doing it for the past couple years.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: You're going to start getting emails. How do I get in on this stuff?
So Digilog days, which I know is your big event that you both mentioned a little bit. Paulina, tell us about it. What's it look like? When is it? How do people get tickets? Et cetera?
[00:23:19] Speaker B: The day is very important, so we'll start there. It's October 18 and 19th, Drew. That's correct. Okay. We literally had our kickoff meeting before south by. And as you know, many things have happened since.
And, yeah, it's essentially just a multi day. We actually call it. We like to call it Digiweek. It's a multi day event where you have usually some sort of artist showcase. That's what we're aiming for at the top of the week. Maybe some smaller connection points within the music industry, folks that are going to be there, as well as we usually have a now playing session, which is another artist discovery piece of programming that we like to do in parallel with our meetups. But the event itself is two days of programming.
It covers kind of two pieces. We have a panel aspect of it where we talk about whatever the topics of the year are. Right. Whether it be related to really anything we cover in music careers. Yeah. What's the next tech? What are some of the next strategies and struggles and things we can talk about on the artist side, on the label side, whatever makes sense for that year. Clearly, we have not worked on programming this year yet.
And the other side of it change.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: A lot between now and October.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: We usually, we're not going to spill all those beans. We've already. We've already shared enough.
No. And then the other side of it is we have a space for basically a music career fest.
We have folks who review resumes, like from our team or other teams, recruiters from companies. One of our favorite things that we do, because, you know, folks need help with that. We also typically try to have partners there who are hiring actively. Right. So they can do a quick one off interview, you know, get their referral, get that link. And then we also have the artist discovery side of that, which is essentially tools and different products and platforms that artists could use to help them in their career and their indie career, because we believe in that as well. So a lot of things there. And then, of course, activations and that. Our favorite thing we do like a little, not a photo. Well, also a photo booth, but we do little headshot activations, which people love. I love the headshot activation.
And then we also do like mentorship one on one, one which we change up year to year. So a lot of things going on there, but it's two days and it's lots of high energy and it's always great to. I'm sure you understand, Randall, but it's like we pulled it off. That's always at the end of it. I'm like, I'm mostly excited for it to be over because I know that it would have been accomplished and successful.
[00:26:05] Speaker A: It's a dead sprint. And the reality is, by the time the day starts, it's going to happen.
It's like your wedding day. It doesn't matter if it rains. It's going to be fine. It's going to be fine. We're going to get through it. We'll be back to next year. And I love the headshot activation thing. I've done that a few times here in Nashville. And we all need better, newer headshots all the time. And I don't know about you all, but I have to take about 200 of them to find half a picture that I like.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: Drew's favorite line is for safety. Sorry, Drew, I have to call.
[00:26:38] Speaker A: That's it. That's it for safety.
So I might have to get on a plane and come there to get me some new headshots.
[00:26:45] Speaker B: Randall, come through.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: Yeah, no, this is, this is exciting. I love this. I love community building. You know, I think there's, there's two. There's way too many, way too many people building fences in this industry when we ought to be using that wood to build a longer table.
[00:27:01] Speaker C: That's.
[00:27:02] Speaker A: That's kind of the way I come.
[00:27:04] Speaker B: The quotes, Randall, the quotes.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: Listen, I'm. As I've gotten older, I've gotten wittier. At least I keep telling myself that.
So outside of this or within this ecosystem you built, let's talk about the future outside of the event. What are you guys really looking forward to?
Are there any big top secret projects you can give us a hint about? That you all are working on, either within the digilog or even external to that. What's got you guys jazzed right now?
[00:27:37] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think we're just trying to address where the industry is transforming into. And I think obviously the industry is going through a massive transformation with just the layoffs. So within our music careers vertical, we're already addressing that. We've upped our job posts every week, and we also have been collaborating with recruiters and HR professionals across the community to do resume reviews for those impacted. So that's happening now in real time and just really just kind of figuring out how do we educate this new class of professionals that now are looking for new opportunities and either empowering them to look for new opportunities or even like help educate them to potentially be entrepreneurs.
I think there's going to be like a new ecosystem of creatives that either are going to start their own companies, add more value just because it's all dispersed now, as opposed to like a lot of those major label companies or just bigger companies that they were a part of, or tech companies they were a part of at one point.
So that's happening now as we address that. And I think in the future, and Polina could speak to this is how do we super serve our global audience? Being able to program more outside of just the US, whether it be London, the MENA region, APAC, and Africa, of course. So just being in presence in person, because our bread and butter are in person events, we just know this is a global music community. So we've only tapped the surface within the US and really be able to bridge that education gap for artists and professionals.
So I think that's really the long term strategy. But Plaina, you can speak to it.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: Once again, what's the event and how much is it going to cost? And I'm kidding. No, I think the Internet, Drew's is vying for an international trip, Randall. He's just pitching it live.
[00:29:38] Speaker A: Hey, we have offices in Johannesburg.
We can get together on a South Africa event.
[00:29:44] Speaker B: I mean, listen.
No, yeah, the international scene is definitely very interesting, right? I think we've been hearing that for years in the industry and. Yeah, first event in London last year.
Where else in Europe is music coming out of Berlin? Obviously Paris, wherever. But outside of that, exactly, like all of the other regions secretly trying to move to Asia for a few years as well. Randall. So, you know, we're all just trying to be out here international.
That's a big piece of it, too. I think that's super exciting. I think what's also exciting, though, is kind of what's next in educational programming for folks in the industry. I think, you know, we all know, you know, indies know what a DSP is. You know, indies know how to, like, get on their distro out with symphonic. Right. Like, indies know all that stuff, which is amazing.
[00:30:33] Speaker A: It's the only way to do it.
[00:30:35] Speaker B: Yeah, obviously. So what is the next level of education and how can we continue to make. Exactly continue to break down the walls and make the industry just more accessible? And we're seeing tools like that out in the world, and now it's just like, bridging the tool with the education piece, which I think we really love to partner with folks, right, who are ahead of the game when it comes to that. So I think that's what I'm really excited about, obviously. Like, AI was a huge conversation last year, but now it's like, okay, AI is happening. Like, obviously that's great, but what's kind of coming down the line? What's the next new thing that we should all be keeping an eye out on?
I'm trying to pitch publishing and royalties on my side. I'm always trying to give that information out for free. But no, I think that's mostly what I'm excited about as an industry as a whole, and kind of where digit log will continue to be a resource for everyone in that regard.
[00:31:33] Speaker A: That's awesome. Yeah, I think the education thing's incredible, and it's close to my heart because I do a lot of music industry education, but what it means to be music industry literate today is not what it was. When I went to school, the word metadata didn't exist was not something that we talked about. And now it's, you know, there are classes on it and so. And I am, you know, I'm excited about AI. I think AI is. Is both. Both a challenge and an opportunity for us all if we can harness it and utilize it for good in that same spirit. Outside of that, or maybe within that, what do you two feel is the biggest challenge facing the music industry, the entertainment industry in 2024? How are we going to overcome it?
It's a big question.
[00:32:25] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I could speak to this.
We can go back to. I think, you know, it's. The energy has shifted to the distros and indies, and just because the personnel of experience and has now kind of trickled down to the distribution and indie space where it's the most important. When I think about music capital, it's the people that you hire the culture that you're building at your companies, because if you don't have the right people, how can you serve the artists? Right? But I think the challenge is that the bigger companies are downsizing, you know, because of the bottom line, but ultimately, not only the people that work there that suffer, but also the artists, that they're a part of the roster. And I think we have to really take care of the people that care about the artists. And it starts with really putting them in a position that we know that, you know, they, they can really be part of these companies and do their best and be their best. So I think I do want to address that, and I think that's super important. But, yeah, that's what we're seeing right now. Well, at least what I'm seeing.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Awesome. You line up with that, Paulina, or do you have other sentiments?
[00:33:43] Speaker B: Drew's perspective is a little bit very unique in that way. I think coming from his perspective, I think from my side, it's mostly backed with tech on the tech side and understanding that space.
And again, operationally, what does tech mean for anything we do in music? I think that what's ahead in 2024 is we're going to continue to see new tools and new startups emerge, new investments in that space. I mean, we literally just saw what James Blake's company get invested in. Literally. What, they dropped that yesterday, you know, and every day you get kind of a new space or new startup starting because it's getting invested in by artists, by the way, which is very interesting. Artists are entrepreneurs, as Drew predicted many years ago, and in a different way. Not in the way that I think maybe we had predicted, but in the way that, hey, musicians as creatives are operators, too. And I think we're just going to continue to see that grow the years. But, yeah, again, selfishly, I'm here for just, like, when do we stop publishing? You know, that's my question. Every year, I'm just like, how do we continue to get artists paid? How do we track it correctly? Clearly very passionate about that subject. So 2024, I don't know. Let's try again. Who can do it? You know, who's out here?
[00:35:06] Speaker A: Well, to that end, I mean, publishing is nothing new. It's been around forever. But it's, I think, one of the most misunderstood corners of the business.
[00:35:16] Speaker B: It's in a deep, it's because they stuck us in the deep corner with the no windows, you know, and we're just, you know, clacking away. No, I'm kidding.
[00:35:25] Speaker A: Crushing selling catalogs. That's it.
[00:35:28] Speaker B: No, I mean, again, I think the technology piece, you know, we always try to bridge that gap between large amounts of data, you know, but that's how people get paid. Right. And I think that's just as indeed become more of who they are. You're going to continue to see people asking more questions, and I think that's just the natural path for folks trying to get more educated so they can make better decisions. And obviously you're going to continue to see that in my opinion.
[00:35:57] Speaker A: Awesome, awesome. Great answers, both of you. Great answers. All right, so before we sign off here, I've just heard this great podcast from these two brilliant people and Randall. And how do I get involved? How do I join the digilog? Where do they go?
[00:36:16] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. They should definitely reach out hellodigilog.com.
If they want to be a community curator, they can address Dre or Amanda from our team, but definitely reach out to our public email. We're very responsive, but yeah, we'd love to have them part of it. Obviously, if we could see them in person too, and meet them in person, that would be even more incredible. Hopefully we can see them out for digilog days, October 18 and 19th, and with Randall as well. Perfect.
[00:36:47] Speaker A: Hello at the dash gilogue.com dot. Yep, I love it. I love it. Well, thank you both so much for being here with us today. Paulina vo and Drew de Leon from the digilog. Once again, I'm Randall Foster, your fearless host of the music industry 360 podcast. And we appreciate you being with us today and look forward to our next one coming soon. Thank you both so much.
[00:37:17] Speaker B: Thank you, Randall.
[00:37:19] Speaker C: Thank you, Randall. Thank you. Symphonic thanks, guys.
