Music Booking: How to Book a Gig? | Music Industry 360 Podcast

Episode 16 February 12, 2019 00:37:42
Music Booking: How to Book a Gig? | Music Industry 360 Podcast
Music Industry 360
Music Booking: How to Book a Gig? | Music Industry 360 Podcast

Feb 12 2019 | 00:37:42

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Show Notes

We’re back with Episode 16 of the Music Industry 360 Podcast, and this time we sit down with Tom DeGeorge, general manager and owner of Crowbar, a local music venue in Tampa. We discuss tips and best practices for reaching out to music venues for booking gigs.

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:15] Speaker A: Everybody and welcome back to the Music Industry 360 podcast. I'm your host Vanessa, and today our topic is tips for reaching out to music venues. And who else could we have on the podcast other than Thomas George, who is the owner and general manager of our local venue Crowbar here in Tampa. So welcome. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Hello. Thanks for having me here. [00:00:31] Speaker A: Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. [00:00:33] Speaker B: It was fun. [00:00:35] Speaker A: So I'm going to have to pick your brain a little bit because the general theme of the podcast is Vanessa doesn't know anything about the music know because my background is more like video stuff and then I got a job in the music industry. So it kind of works out because usually artists that are starting out don't know a lot of stuff. So I'm kind of in the same boat as them. So I'm going to start from the top here. So what are some tips do you recommend just for an artist who's just starting out and wants to book a gig? What's, like a step by step process? They should do that you recommend? [00:01:04] Speaker B: Well, I guess it's hard to go in order. I think it really depends. You have to know what your band is capable of. That's really important. Sometimes I'll have artists approach and the first thing they'll say is, hey, we really want to play your club. And I'll say, oh, that's great. How long have you guys been together? Oh, they haven't even had a show yet. And it's like, well, if you haven't even played a show yet and you're not sure about what your draw is going to be, your first step is probably not playing a 400 person room. So I think it's important to know what your limitations are. I would suggest if you're just breaking into the scene or you just started probably starting at smaller venues or open mics, that's a good first step. If you're a new band, but you have band experience where you've been in other bands and you have a following and you have a draw and you think you can fill the room, then you can approach. And there's any number of ways to approach. You could either do it by email or you can come in person. I would say first start with an email. If you don't hear anything back, you could try to come in person. The main thing is to know your limitations because people will say, oh, it's all about the music. I don't care about the money. But venues do have to make money to survive. And the last thing you want to do is get your foot in the door and then come in and five people show up. [00:02:49] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:49] Speaker B: It's going to be hard to get a second gig if that happens. So be persistent, get in there, and then once you're in there, try to produce the numbers another really good way. And I tell a lot of bands that they'll say, hey, we really want to get in, what do we have to do? A lot of venues don't want to put, I'll say the band. Well, do you have other bands you could perform with? What do you want to do? And they want you to do all the work. It's a lot easier to approach a booking agent or a manager or a venue owner and already have a full lineup to say, hey, I got these three other bands we want to play with. It's a whole lineup. Each one of us can bring like 30 or 40 people and we're just looking for a date around this time. Make it easy on the venue and if you don't know anybody, go to the band's, either website or social media and look for bands that have already played there. Sometimes it's easier to actually, instead of reaching out to the venue, reach out to bands that you see, oh well, Band XYZ has played there. I see over these past few months they've played there twice. I'm going to call them and say to them, hey listen, you play there. Is there any way we can jump on a gig with you and try to network through the different artists that have performed at that venue already? [00:04:14] Speaker A: That's about that, yeah. [00:04:18] Speaker B: If you don't know the other local bands in town, you need to know them anyway. So networking through other artists is really probably the easiest, fastest way to get into a venue. But I would stress to different artists, start with the smaller rooms, know your limitations and try to build into the bigger venues so you're always keeping the different venues that you're going to happy. [00:04:49] Speaker A: So when you're saying how they should email, do they just send samples of their music saying, you know, we're a local rock band or we're a local electronic band? [00:04:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, usually the best thing to do is to provide a short bio and then you can provide links to whatever you got. If it's your Facebook page or a little EPK kit or whatever, just provide the links. You definitely don't want to it's just like when you're looking for a job with a resume, if it's too wordy and too long, a lot of the times because people have stacks of stuff, it ends up in the trash or somewhere. I would keep it short to the point a bio, a picture, and whatever links you have that are going to show the venue what you're capable of. A lot of places the person that's getting it might not necessarily be the person that's going to book you, but if it looks professional, then they'll forward it to either their in house person or like I deal with probably at this point, it's more than it's ever been. Probably about 20 different promoters. And so even if I'm not looking for something, I know that those promoters, especially if they're bringing me a lot of touring stuff. They're constantly looking for fresh local talent to open these tours. I will forward that contact to all of them and say, hey, listen, this person looks pretty professional. If you're looking for somebody for this type of music to open up for any of your tours, you might want to consider them and they take that. And if you do the right job that that contact could go to, not just to that one place, it could be forwarded to 20 or 30 different people. [00:06:25] Speaker A: Okay, so this is something that I don't know either. What are the expected costs? What should the artists expect to be paid, but then also what should they expect to have to bring? [00:06:36] Speaker B: That's a great question. Okay, if you're a band and once again, this is just my opinion well, some of it's my opinion, some of it's fact. What you should expect to pay. I always tell people, like, if you're coming into a room, I feel a good way to gauge what your expense would be is based upon the venue's capacity. If a place holds 100 people, their overhead isn't going to be nearly as much as if a place holds $1,500 because there's plenty of different deals you can encounter. But if you're strictly looking to put on a vent and you go to a place and say, we would love to get into your space, how much it is is it to rent your room? I feel that the venue like to rent crowbar. Usually our rental fee is anywhere between 250 and $500. Our capacity is $400. So the rental fee should really be within that window of how many people the place can hold. So if it's a bigger place that holds like 1500 people, you should probably expect to pay anywhere between 1000, 502,000 because bigger places are going to have more costs. You're going to have to have more security guards, you're going to have to have a more qualified sound engineer because it's a bigger room. And that goes back to when I was saying that the artists should really know their limitations because you don't want to get into a situation where you're renting a 400 person room and paying all that extra money if you're only going to draw 50 people. And if the venue is being fair, like, I'm not in the habit of trying to rip people off because I want to see all the local artists do well. If the venue is being fair, all they're really charging for rent is to cover their based operation cost, which is what I do. Now, that being said, that's why it's important that the artist knows that they can draw because by charging that little bit of money, I'm not really making any money unless you produce some customers to come in and spend money in the bar. If 20 or 30 people show up, I'm not doing well. [00:08:57] Speaker A: Okay? So I must just be really out of the loop then because it was my understanding, like, you reach like an agreement that the artist also gets paid for performing. But I'm used to going to concerts. [00:09:10] Speaker B: Well, a lot of the local bands, they do get paid when they rent the room, then they get the door. If they do like 250 people and they charge $10, then that's $2,500. [00:09:24] Speaker A: Okay, that makes sense, no? [00:09:25] Speaker B: And once again, there's plenty of different examples. You were asking me about if a band approaches me to use my room. If I seek out a band and I go, wow, this band's really good, I want to have them at my place, then the roles are reversed. I'd have to make them an offer based on how many people I think that they're going to bring into the building. If an artist is approaching me wanting to play my room and looking for a date, usually they're going to rent the space. [00:09:57] Speaker A: Okay? [00:09:57] Speaker B: If I'm seeking them out, then like I said, it's completely different situation. [00:10:02] Speaker A: So, like videos and photographers. So do they need to have special permits to bring them in to get the footage they want to use, like on social media and stuff? [00:10:12] Speaker B: Well, the only time that there's really video or photographer restrictions is if it's a local show and the artists want to bring them in. That's totally fine with me. The only time there would ever be restrictions if it's a touring show and in the contract, they have to have credentials to be permitted in. A lot of the touring artists, they want to know who's filming in them and who's taking pictures of them. So sometimes there's special permits for that. Not so much on my level at this point because we are a smaller venue and everybody can take their phones out at any point now and get some pretty good footage of whoever they want. I do know that bigger venues sometimes are a little bit stricter, but once again, they usually separate it out to professional photography. [00:11:13] Speaker A: So you mentioned earlier about the soundboard and stuff like that. So I don't know if it depends on the venue, but what is the venue responsible for providing and what should the artists be providing for their performance? [00:11:28] Speaker B: I mean, every place is different. There are some places that have no, they just have a stage and they don't have a PA, and so then the artist would have to bring all their equipment with them. We have a full PA at the bar. So the only thing artists ever usually need to bring is their instruments in their cabinets. And we provide the full sound system that all their music comes out of and microphones and the lights and everything else. If the venue is professional enough, usually you can go on their website and it'll tell you their tech specs will be right on the website. [00:12:08] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:08] Speaker B: Bands can look for that or sometimes you just walk in and you ask them when you come in. Coming in the middle of directly in the middle of a concert isn't always great. I always tell artists to try to if they can try to come in the afternoon, a lot of places taking their deliveries and stuff in the afternoon, you might be able to get to bend somebody's ear when they're already not in the middle of a full room and stuff like that. [00:12:36] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. When you're trying to get something booked, don't bother them while they're super busy, right. You would think it'd be common sense, but not always. [00:12:46] Speaker B: Well, a lot of times too, especially if you're coming to a place like IBOR City and you're trying to get your foot in the door, it's easier to come at night because you go, well, all these places are open. I'm just going to pop around. It's just easy isn't always the most effective way of doing things, you know what I mean? So if you're being serious about it, you should really, like you said, use some common sense and go, okay, this is going to be a lot harder because a lot of these places won't be open yet. But the few that I do catch there, they're probably going to have a lot more time to pay attention to me than if I would have came in the middle of the night. [00:13:25] Speaker A: So, yeah, if an artist is trying to book a gig somewhere, they should just either look on the website or ask in the email or ask in person, like, hey, what equipment do you include? And do you include security, what gear? So that you're fully prepared, basically. [00:13:42] Speaker B: And be persistent because you're going to get a lot of the times and I'm not afraid to admit it, I do it. Bands will hit me up and I'll go, I'll talk to a bit like, listen, want to get you in here. Calendar is really full. I'll try to get you in here and then a million other things come up and I don't think about it. And you got to be persistent. Don't be afraid to become a pain in the butt because eventually I'm going to go, okay, this guy's asked me three times now if there's any venue people listening, I would tell them too. And be honest, I tell bands all the time if they show up and I know flat out that they are just too small still to play the room, I will tell them, I'll say, Listen, here's the thing. I know you want to play here, but you should play this place first and then come back to me when you're ready to play this room. [00:14:37] Speaker A: If you recommend some exactly. [00:14:39] Speaker B: And recommend it. I try to help them that way, but I'm always honest with them. So from the venue standpoint, the venue should be honest. But once again, if I'm being honest, with an act and I say, I'm going to get you in here. I'm being honest with them. So that act should be persistent because if I'm a venue and I'm saying, yeah, I'm going to get you in, be persistent because I might just be super busy. The more you follow up with it, the more likely I'm going to be to get you in there sooner than waiting and waiting and waiting. [00:15:09] Speaker A: I'm getting a little deja vu from a recent podcast episode with Ray Roa from Creative Loping. [00:15:16] Speaker B: Ray used to work for me. [00:15:17] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. He may have mentioned that when we did a brief. [00:15:21] Speaker B: I taught Ray everything he knows about everything. [00:15:25] Speaker A: But he said the same thing about when reaching out to know people should be persistent. And also with the emailing, know, have it be short and concise, have a bio, have a picture, all that stuff. So it's just interesting. When you're reaching out to press, you can also reach out to venues. It's constantly communicating and pushing and like you said, networking. You should always be on the go. [00:15:48] Speaker B: You really just the only way to get your foot in door is kick down doors. Sometimes you just have to be know, you want to be polite, but there's nothing wrong with being mean. But yeah, Ray worked for me back when this is a funny story about Ray. He's going to get mad that I don't know if he'll get mad. He's going to be like, tom, you told this story. But so when Ray first broke into the business, I think it was probably his very first job was working for me over at the Masquerade, which is now the Ritz Theater. It used to be called the Masquerade, which I ran for like five or six years before I opened Crowbar in 2006. He worked security for me there and some shows over there, we'd have 2030 security guards. So I'd go. Okay, Ray, here's where I want you. And I'd put them watching a door or something. And so finally one day he said to me, he goes, hey, man, I just want to know, why do you always put me over here? Why don't you ever give me the exciting jobs like watching the mosh pit or being in the barricade? I was just like, Ray, because you'd get killed. You get just watch this door for me, buddy. And he was just like, oh, man, that hurts my feelings. I was like, you'll be all right. But look at that. He started watching doors. Now look how far he's gotten now. That was one of the main guys out here with career of loafing. [00:17:08] Speaker A: I was just thinking how I didn't because usually I ask our guests to give a brief career overview. So, I mean, you just mentioned now the Ritz and. [00:17:20] Speaker B: Well, the same know, like Ray started working for me. What I did was I went to Penn State University. I was a major in criminal justice. But like most college kids, while I was going to school, I had to work while I was taking my classes so I could support myself and have spending money. So like a lot of college kids, I was at Penn State and I started working bouncing in bars. And the first bar I got a job at out there was called Crowbar in Penn State. It was a very big concert venue out there for many years and worked there. And then after I graduated, I was going to go into the police Academy and I was like, you know, I really in the two and a half years I had worked over at Crowbar, I had gotten some moved up the ladder there from door guy to barback to a floor supervisor to management position. So I had already moved up the ladder there. But I was also getting work at the Bryce Jordan Center. Which would be similar to what's, the stadium here? Yeah, it would be similar to Emily Arena. It's like a 30,000 person place and I ran all the security for the floor there for shows like Metallica and Guns and Roses and Kiss concert there. So anyway, I was doing all this stuff when I graduated. I was like, well, I'm going to put out some resumes. I really like doing this. I got hired at the Masquerade in Atlanta and then after two and a half years with them, they transferred me here to the one that was here in Tampa. And then when that closed in 2006, that's when I opened Crowbar. So I spent a lot of time working in the business before I opened up my own place. But once you start doing it, I think it's in your blood. I don't think there's any way around it, whether know, starting a security or working in the press like Ray does or in mean this this it's. If it's in your blood, you want to do it for the rest of your life. [00:19:29] Speaker A: So your story about Ray made me want to ask you what are some stories you have? I don't want to say like nightmares with artists and stuff, but what are some interesting stories about mistakes that artists have made when they've been trying to book or ones that have booked in a mistake they made while performing. Just anything that sticks out. [00:19:51] Speaker B: I don't know if you call it mistakes. I've worked with a lot of different artists over the years, so I guess they're not mistakes. And I do have a lot of funny story. I don't know how many are appropriate. I don't know who this podcast goes to, but I could tell mean I have a lot of them. The original Crowbar that was in State College, we had one time we were doing a show with Joan Jett and the black Arts and she showed up for her set and walks in, goes into the green room. And when she got in there, there was this special Haagendas ice cream that was on her rider. And she was like, it's not in there. I'm not going on stage until I get my ice cream. So she went back on her bus. We were all like, oh, my god, what the heck? So we sent this poor kid, Joe Kluber out to go find this ice cream. And he ended up driving around State College, Pennsylvania for about 45 minutes trying to find this ice cream. He finally found it, comes back, we got the ice cream. She gets off her bus, looks, picks up the ice cream, sees that we have it, put it back down, goes on stage, and now she went on an hour later than she's supposed. You know, the crowds had been waiting. They're not happy. There's a thousand people. Gets up there, does her set, goes back off stage, goes right back to her bus. Never even touched the ice cream after all of that. Didn't even touch it. And this poor kid, he ate the ice cream himself. I was like, Joey, eat the ice cream yourself. You did this so weird. We had a situation one time with Insane Clown Posse that they performed at that same venue. And they come in the night before, and they ran up a big bar tab, and we're drinking. So all your bartenders out there, no matter who it is, get their credit card first. They ran up this enormous bar tab, and then afterwards they got done drinking. And they says, oh, by the way, your stage doesn't fit the contract requirements. We're not going to play tomorrow. And they went and got back on their tour bus. And so I was the floor supervisor at the time. I said to my general manager, what are we supposed to do? He says, well, they're not going to leave till tomorrow. I'm going to talk to them. We're going to try to sort it out. So the next day, I come back in, and the bus is gone. I said to my general mayor, I said, well, what happened? He says, well, they said they refused to play. I didn't know what else to do. You're just going to have to at the door, just explain to people that their tickets are refundable, and then they're not going to reform or perform. And I don't know if you know anything about Insane Clown Posse, but their fans are absolutely crazy. So I'm sitting there. I'm thinking, this is bullshit. My GM ended up not even being there that night. He had disappeared somewhere. So I was sitting there with myself and one of the other security guards. We were the only two people there. There's a line all the way around the block. And I ended up seeing the contract. This is not a good story for anybody looking about the industry, by the way. This is just a funny story that's very funny and very bad. But anyway, I found the contract on the desk. This is a long time ago, by the way. This is still when people use Payphones and stuff. And so I found the contract, and I found a tour manager's name on the contract. I wrote a sign at the front door and said, I'm very sorry. Insane Clown Posse is not going to be here tonight. We're upset about it. It was well, if you have any questions, you should call this number. This is their tour manager. I'm sure he'd be happy to hear from you. But yeah. So everybody went right to the corner, and they're on the cell phones. Well, within probably five minutes, the phone right next to the front door is ringing. Hello, Crowbar. This is so and so with Insane Clown posse. I don't know. And I can't say exactly what he was saying, because once again, I don't know what kind of podcast this is, but he was very angry. And he's telling me I think it was something like, we are 30,000 strong. We will burn your place to the ground. Because their whole thing was that they were supposed to be, like, basically gangbangers. And the reason why they painted their face like clowns was because their identity couldn't be known, which very well could be true. I don't know. But yeah, anyway, he was really mad, and I would just kept on saying him, oh, I'm sorry, I got a bad connection. I can't hear you. And I would hang up on him. But yeah, that was a funny one. Yeah, I got a million of them. I mean, we'd be here for three we'd be here for 100 hours, probably through some of the outrageous stuff. [00:24:34] Speaker A: All right, so to bring it back then, so artists are looking to book a venue like well, don't do any of that that you were just talking about. Don't make ridiculous demands. [00:24:46] Speaker B: To summarize on a local level, I would just say to sum it up as briefly as possible on a local level, if you're just trying to get your foot in the door, you have to be persistent, you have to be humble, and you have to be professional. Realize that you're going to probably get a lot of no's before you get the yes. Don't quit. Just keep being persistent and keep pursuing what you want to do and be honest with yourself. Start with you might want to play the Ritz Theater or something, but if you know that the most you're going to get is 50 people, you got to start at the coffee shop, start small, work your way up. I mean, that's just how life works with just about everything. You start at a smaller position, and eventually you graduate. If you continue with hard work and you're talented enough, you'll graduate to the point where you get into the bigger opportunities. [00:25:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that's the only way to start getting exposure. You just got to get out there and start performing wherever that you can get booked. [00:26:03] Speaker B: You take the opportunities that are reciprocated back to you through your persistence and you make the most of them so you can get more opportunities. That's probably the best advice I can give. [00:26:18] Speaker A: There is one extra point here that I forgot to mention. Once all that is done and everything is booked, who promotes the event? Like, both? [00:26:27] Speaker B: Well, once again, it depends on who you reach out to, because like I said, just as much as the artist needs to be professional, the venue needs to be professional. So I would say that depending on the situation, if you're the artist and you're reaching out and you'renting the venue, technically you should be promoting the show too. But if the venue is worth anything and they're professional, they're going to tell you, listen, when you've created this stuff, like, if they create an event page, I'm going to tell them, please send that to me, because whoever does my social media, or if I do it myself, I am going to be sharing this. It should really be a partnership where we're helping each other. If you're the local artist and you've rented the room and you print posters, the venue should be willing to hang those posters. I wouldn't say that you should rely on the venue to distribute them all over town for you, but the venue should at least put the posters up at the venue. Even though it's the artist's event, it's at my venue. So it behooves me just as much to help you promote it as much as I can. So the only thing I would say is, you also have to remember that as the artist, you have one show to promote. Because I have had this happen where I said, listen, give me your stuff, I'll share it, I'm going to get it out there and I'll help you through my circle as much as I can. And then the show will be like seven weeks out and they'll go, I haven't seen you do anything for me. Why aren't you doing anything for me? Listen, buddy, chill out for a second, right? Because you have one show. I've got 60 concerts on my calendar right now. Once again, that's what you have to know who you're dealing with as a venue. Generally, what we do is once the show is announced, we do a blast when it's announced, and then as we're building towards it, more frequency comes. So you see it at the different times leading up. So you really just have to know the venue you're dealing with. And it doesn't hurt to ask too. If you're booking the room, you need to say, Listen, I'm booking the room, but I'm going to do an event page, I'm going to print posters. Would you mind sharing this for me? Is that something you do? Can I put. These posters up when we come. Communication is key. Just know what you're getting to. And you know what? If you book this room and they tell you, listen, I'm going to charge your rental fee, and I'm going to cover sound guy, the gear and the security for you, and they're not willing to help with any sort of advertising for you, you could check that off. And then the next room you go to, if you see that, well, this other room does it for me. Maybe that's the better room to go with. The whole thing is a business. You got to look out for yourself, too, and make sure that you're happy with what you're getting from the venue. [00:29:38] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. It's a lot to take in. Think about all that goes into it. But yeah, it keeps sticking with me. You said, be persistent. [00:29:46] Speaker B: You have to. [00:29:47] Speaker A: Yeah. To make it. [00:29:49] Speaker B: You have to because you have to remember, too, there's another thousand of you out there trying to do the same exact thing you're doing. Like I said, I can only speak for myself. And I do think that as far as a lot of the different business owners, general managers, I'm one of the better ones. I actually care about the business. I care about the artists coming in. Some of these dudes don't give a shit about anybody. They just look at and go, I have to make as much money as possible. Like I said, that's true, too. Venues, brick and mortar, places. In order to stay open, you have to make money. Luckily, I actually care about the business. So I try to see both sides of that where I go, you know what? I want to make money, but at the same time, I want to help the community grow. I want to help these young artists. So I try to look at both things, find that balance, right? [00:30:45] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, well, that covers all my notes here. Is there anything else you wanted to add that we may not have covered? [00:30:55] Speaker B: I think that's about it. I have a good time. [00:30:58] Speaker A: That's good. Did you want to give an email or anything? Like, if people are looking to book. [00:31:06] Speaker B: With crowbar, they can contact my email is [email protected]. That's C-R-O-W-B-A-R. Live. [email protected]. And for me personally, I prefer email. That is great. Send the email. If you don't hear anything back, wait a couple of weeks, send another email, and this works, too. And then if you don't hear anything back, show up in person and go, hey, I sent you an email. I didn't hear anything back. I go, oh, what was your name? Start up a conversation with me, put a face then where the name was. [00:31:43] Speaker A: I go, okay, but don't show up during a show. [00:31:45] Speaker B: But don't show up during a show. It's a bad move. Come in the afternoon. [00:31:50] Speaker A: All right, it sounds good. All right, well to segue into our wrap up chat some upcoming events with Symphonic. February 23 is our very first music industry sessions in Puerto Rico. We've had one in Tampa and we've had a couple in New York but now we're going to have one in Puerto Rico along with a live music showcase too. So keep an eye out for that on our social media. And then we're also going to be heading to Folk Alliance in Kansas City, the 10th Annual Guild Awards which is the biggest licensing awards show nice south by Southwest in March which we go to every year. [00:32:25] Speaker B: I want to go to Southwest, who does me right? [00:32:27] Speaker A: Pick me. And the Winter Music Conference which actually we're going to have our own panel talk and networking event there. So with all those, just keep an eye out on Symphonic socials. For more info on all so Tom, I'm going to have to put you on the spot again. This is what I do to every person. But since we are a music podcast, what music are you currently listening to? [00:32:52] Speaker B: Well, I'll be honest with you, I like just about everything. I couldn't tell you a specific artist that I'm listening to. Right? Really? It just depends on my mood. I can listen to a lot of country. I think people know I like hip hop. I could tell you one thing and this is going to shock people, people looking at me think that I'm like this big metalhead. I don't listen to a lot of metal music and mostly like if we have to ask somebody to leave the bar or not allow them in for some reason that's the first thing. People go, okay, whatever, Slayer guy, that's like the first thing that they try to attack me with. So yes, I don't listen to a lot of metal. I have listened to some metal but mostly I like hip hop, country and a lot of folk and like all country type stuff. And usually to be honest with you too, other than when I'm at work I'm always listening to music. But when I'm in my free time I'm listening to music. It's usually when I'm driving around because everybody listens to music when driving around. When I'm home I try to make it as quiet as possible but when I am driving around listening to stuff, it's almost always local artists or other touring artists that I've had at the bar that I have on my playlist shout out to have Gunwall travel. Love your stuff. I do listen to them a lot, they're my friends. [00:34:27] Speaker A: I was going to say it makes sense to listen to local artists too or like upcoming just so if they do reach out or if you want. [00:34:33] Speaker B: To reach out to them, you're familiar with that's here? If you're local and I'm listening to you and then I see other local artists that are similar, it helps open up the opportunities for me, too. When I'm trying to fill dates, I go, oh, that band was really good. Let me reach out to them. And like we said, that's the other end of the spectrum. I'll reach out to other artists and offer them either a guarantee or some sort of door deal or a split and work it out that way. [00:35:09] Speaker A: Do you usually like haggle back and forth with stuff like that? [00:35:13] Speaker B: Not a whole lot. I mean, I'm not really a haggler. I'll go, Listen, this is what I can do, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I don't usually like, Well, I'll try to do this and see what I get. I'll say, this is what I can do, it makes sense. And then if that doesn't work and they might make one counteroffer, like, well, can we try it like this? I go, yeah, sure, we try it like that. I'm pretty easy. I'm either going to say yes or no. [00:35:37] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:35:39] Speaker B: What are you currently listening to? [00:35:41] Speaker A: That's what I was going to say. [00:35:42] Speaker B: I'm putting you on the spot. [00:35:44] Speaker A: I know it's difficult for me every time because I usually just listen to just my favorites all the time because I'm still old school. I still buy music on itunes and I have my phone and I just kind of listen to that. So I listen to a lot of muse. I have some old, like, 80s rock that I like to listen to. Aerosmith def leppard. [00:36:02] Speaker B: Yeah, big hair bands. Big hair bands. Grunge. [00:36:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:07] Speaker B: See, now that you said now I'm thinking about it, too. [00:36:09] Speaker A: I love all that stuff. Yeah. But I also was into, like, 90s pop and stuff because that was the era I grew in. [00:36:15] Speaker B: That's fun. [00:36:16] Speaker A: Like you said, I like a variety of stuff, so I used to just listen to my random playlist that I. [00:36:22] Speaker B: Have on my I think it just depends. That's how I am. At least I like it all. It just really depends on my mood. I listen to funk and soul, you know what I mean? We have a record player at home and that's what we'll sit there and listen to old records, me and my wife, and just really depends on what we're in the mood for. Throwing some Beastie Boys rage against the. [00:36:47] Speaker A: That'S what's amazing about it, is that everything is out there for whatever your mood, whatever you want to listen. Yeah. All right, so I think that covers everything. [00:36:58] Speaker B: Awesome. [00:36:58] Speaker A: Thanks again, Tom, for being on. [00:36:59] Speaker B: Thanks for having me here. I love coming here. [00:37:01] Speaker A: I think this will be really helpful for a lot, especially a lot of our local artists who that are just looking to get started. So you'll probably get, like, a wave of requests based on this. [00:37:11] Speaker B: Good. [00:37:11] Speaker A: And hopefully we can help some people. [00:37:13] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:37:14] Speaker A: So that's what our podcast is about. We just try to educate and try to help however we can. All right, guys. Well, thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time. [00:37:23] Speaker B: See you later.

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